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Diabetes Support Forum UK    Diabetes topics    General Discussion  ›  New book for people trying to reverse Type 2
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New book for people trying to reverse Type 2 Print
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580
November 25, 2010, 2:41am Report to Moderator
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Just come across this new book "How I managed to reverse diabetes and lose weight" by Andrew Owen.

http://www.howireverseddiabetes.com/Index.html

The book is endorsed by Diabetes UK and will likely be of interest to anyone who is looking to reverse Type 2 diabetes.
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209
November 25, 2010, 5:33pm Report to Moderator
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Interesting that a person's photograph can look both smug and shifty simultaneously!
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7
November 25, 2010, 8:02pm Report to Moderator
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  Thank you for putting into words what  I thought earlier... but at least he looks trim!
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1055
November 25, 2010, 9:20pm Report to Moderator
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I think I'll wait for the gospel according to St Alan.
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77
November 25, 2010, 9:23pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 1055
I think I'll wait for the gospel according to St Alan.


Lol Tessa  
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1347
November 25, 2010, 9:27pm Report to Moderator
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He's nice and slim, but I wouldn't buy a used car from somebody in a suit like that.
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505
November 26, 2010, 2:08am Report to Moderator
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Hmmm,

The link that said learn more about the book failed.

I looked at the "start the journey" tab and lo it revealed an Atkins meal! - where are the starchy carbs in that?
Actually to lose 4 st in 6 months, it had to be low carb.
Yet it is endorsed by DiabetesUK.  Go figure! as they say.
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991
November 26, 2010, 10:34am Report to Moderator
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For what its worth , I think that losing 4 stones in 6 months is too rapid, for most people anyway  
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1532
November 26, 2010, 12:02pm Report to Moderator
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Think i'll go and get a pin-stripped suit from Tesco
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7
November 26, 2010, 12:24pm Report to Moderator
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We are very naughty taking the mickey!  The guy may have something worth saying.
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256
November 26, 2010, 11:41pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 1055
I think I'll wait for the gospel according to St Alan.

Crikey - I'm still waiting for my proof copy from the printer via snailboatmail.

Can an atheist write a gospel?

And I have to admit that guy is slimmer than I, although we have similar hairstyles   I tried to read some detail, but failed; at least there were no carbs showing in the pictured meal.
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580
November 27, 2010, 2:08am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 256
..................I tried to read some detail, but failed; at least there were no carbs showing in the pictured meal................
I've not read the book yet but here are the comments of the person who pointed me at the book:

Quoted Text
Basically he restricted carbs and is now off all medication, with excellent blood results.
By the way, that person is a believer in the reduced carbohydrate approach and works within Diabetes UK.

Maybe we are making maybe just a little progress at getting a better message accepted within the diabetes establishment?

As far as I am concerned by far the most important message is that it is possible to reverse Type 2 diabetes through diet - at least it is in in some people. However, people do have to be determined to test the possibilities out for themselves in the first place - it won't just happen without them trying!

John
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580
November 27, 2010, 3:02am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 7
We are very naughty taking the mickey!  The guy may have something worth saying.
Yes - I agree Patti! Some of the comments do seem a little bit rude about a poor chap who doesn't seem to have done anyone any harm that we know about.

My mother always used to tell us that "if we didn't have something nice to say then maybe we ought to keep quiet".

I've noticed that my wife uses that saying a lot too - especially when talking to the kids and the grandkids.

John


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505
November 27, 2010, 3:31am Report to Moderator
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But we know resticting carbs produces BG reduction.  I'm confused as to how he received endorsement from DUK who have advocated a high starch diet for years.
I've ordered his book just to appraise it.

Low carb diets manage diabetes.  "Reversing" implies that everythng was as before. In my experience, when you have stabalised high BG, you still have to stick with the LC diet, which is not exactly "reversing".
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580
November 27, 2010, 4:37am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 505
.........................Low carb diets manage diabetes.  "Reversing" implies that everythng was as before. In my experience, when you have stabalised high BG, you still have to stick with the LC diet, which is not exactly "reversing"....................
It could be that the writer has found the same as me Lozzark. Maybe, he too can now eat fairly significant amounts of carbohydrate without it taking his blood glucose levels outside what are considered to be non-diabetic levels? Certainly that is the situation that I have arrived at!

Maybe "low carb diets manage diabetes" - in fact, many of us have found that to be the case by testing and cutting carbohydrate intake.

However, maybe the important thing that takes us even a stage further and leads to "reversal" - or "cure" even - is something else such as the removal of fat from the cells (as per Dr Neal Barnard in his book "The Reverse Diabetes Diet") and/or by removing fat, by whatever means, from the important organs such as the pancreas and liver (as scientists such as Dr Kieren Hollingsworth seem to be finding at Newcastle University). Maybe it is something like that that leads to reversal or cure? Certainly, I don't have the answers - I'm just thinking aloud.

However, in my own case, I really do seem to have gone past the stage of simply "managing" my diabetes by restricting carbs to some further position that I was never expecting to arrive at and that situation really does seem to fall into at least what I understand to be the meaning of the word "reversal". In fact, just thinking about it, I arrived at that stage quite some time back - I am know actually wondering whether or not it is possible to "cure" Type 2 diabetes in some cases at least. Again, I don't have the answers - I'm just thinking aloud about the stage that I'm finding myself at.

John
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505
November 27, 2010, 12:52pm Report to Moderator
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Hi John,

Yep, I'm sure that reversal of some conditions that manifest as T2 is possible.  The issue is that not all T2 cases are the same. I seem to remember reading that there are something like 42 variations. I know of many factors that may be causitive.  So there is not one fix.  I just wish authors to be clear on what they call "cure". Anyway I refuse to knock books until I've read them, so that one is on order.  I also found "death to diabetes" consistent with my thinking and if the diabetes is caused by a nutritional imbalance (which can be), that book could fix it, but at worst it will just manage the situation.
By your outstanding diligence you have arrive at a much more favourable situation, but even you would hesitate to say that you are "cured".  The acid test is the OGGT, which, if you did one at the hight of your T2, will show how much your glucose tolerance has improved if you undertook one now.
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1632
November 28, 2010, 7:16pm Report to Moderator
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He's from the Welsh chapter of DUK - maybe they're somewhat devolved - and he's not reversed his diabetes but he is managing it and maybe even preventing its progression.


Endorsement by Diabetes UK Cymru

"None of us get unfit overnight, it's a slow process of eating a 'few extra biscuits' a day that add up over the years.
This is compounded by getting out of the habit of regular activity - the result is a diabetes epidemic that is sweeping the country.
Andrew has clearly taken his wake up call seriously, and with a few lifestyle changes, and a lot of determination, has managed to turn his life around giving himself a brand new healthier future".

Dai Williams, National Director

Diabetes UK Cymru
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319
November 28, 2010, 8:19pm Report to Moderator
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I really wish when statements like that are made they would state which type of Diabetes they think they are referring to.  When I was seven and as thin as a rake I very much doubt that I was unfit or had eaten too many biscuits.  
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62
November 28, 2010, 8:20pm Report to Moderator
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A few diabetic patient's at the surgery where I work have had bariatric surgery and after significant weight lose they too have been able to stop taking medication BUT they are still diabetic and have test strips .............. They have become diabetics on diet alone
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77
November 28, 2010, 11:31pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 580

As far as I am concerned by far the most important message is that it is possible to reverse Type 2 diabetes through diet - at least it is in in some people. However, people do have to be determined to test the possibilities out for themselves in the first place - it won't just happen without them trying!

John


John - the part of this statement that is the most important for me is "at least it is in some people" - I would argue a very very very few people - due to the ongoing tummy probs & on medical advice I recently reduced metformin (along with continuing my managed carb diet) with a view to stopping it - disasterous - weight started to go on - 6lb in 2 months - carb addiction started to rear it's ugly head and my bg's were slowly going up.

I returned to my GP and was given SR metformin and have started to take 2 x 500mg a day - I am pleased to say that the tummy probs have gone and the bg's are coming down again and I am managing to resist the carbs - weight - not too sure have yet to check.

If this is me for some time to come then so be it - I have to say that the never ending talk about "reversal" and "cure" is very frustrating and I do worry that the majority of T2's who visit the forum will - like i do - find it sole destroying and depressing - as it is likely we can never hope to achieve what you have done.

With your ability to now eat a "normal" diet with apparently little/no impact on your bg's I do wonder if the diagnosis of T2 was right - could it have been something else?
  

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7
November 29, 2010, 12:08am Report to Moderator
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John

As others have pointed out, not all T2s are equal and Nick (Lozzark) has I recall mentioned that there are known to be at least 40 odd types of T2, I think we have to acknowledge that what has happened to you is amazing but absolutely not possible for all T2s.  Whilst we celebrate your success (and we truly do), I do think that you have to acknowledge that it's not possible for all, despite their best efforts.  I understand from the private messages I am getting that as I just said, whilst people celebrate your success, they are getting a little miffed by the underlying message that if they don't get the same result they are failures in their management.  It would be nice if you could offer positive encouragement to others rather than posting yourself as a "shining example".  Could you encourage others by posting helpful advice, taking into consideration what they have tried so far?  This would be more in line with our policy here of offering non judgemental support.
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580
November 30, 2010, 2:11am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 77
...................With your ability to now eat a "normal" diet with apparently little/no impact on your bg's I do wonder if the diagnosis of T2 was right - could it have been something else?.................
I've absolutely no idea whether it could have been something else.

What I do know is that my HbA1c rose quite slowly but steadily from 5.7% at diagnosis to 9.4% after seven years of "progression". Also, I suffered loads of what I now know to be typical symptoms of diabetes that have almost all now disappeared. When I started testing just over two years ago my blood glucose levels used to rise into double figures when I ate starchy carbohydrates such as cereals, bread, potatoes, pasta, rice, pizza etc.

So yes - I do consider that my diagnosis of suffering from Type 2 diabetes was correct.

John

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580
November 30, 2010, 3:04am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 7
John

As others have pointed out, not all T2s are equal and Nick (Lozzark) has I recall mentioned that there are known to be at least 40 odd types of T2, I think we have to acknowledge that what has happened to you is amazing but absolutely not possible for all T2s.  Whilst we celebrate your success (and we truly do), I do think that you have to acknowledge that it's not possible for all, despite their best efforts.  I understand from the private messages I am getting that as I just said, whilst people celebrate your success, they are getting a little miffed by the underlying message that if they don't get the same result they are failures in their management.  It would be nice if you could offer positive encouragement to others rather than posting yourself as a "shining example".  Could you encourage others by posting helpful advice, taking into consideration what they have tried so far?  This would be more in line with our policy here of offering non judgemental support.
Sorry if my postings are causing other members difficulties. All I have ever tried to do is to share with others what is happening to me in the hope that it might encourage maybe just a few other non-insulin-dependent Type 2s to try to learn maybe just something from my experiences. As far as I am concerned, I never suggest that what has happened to me will be possible for everybody else. Moreover, I have absolutely no idea why you might even suggest that I might be being "judgmental" of anyone whatsoever. By the way, I haven't received even one private message regarding the matters that you write about.

Personally, I consider that I have always tried to give a message that improvement might just be possible in at least maybe a few other Type 2s - not for all but just maybe a few others! Why? Because my improvement began as soon as I started testing and then adjusting my diet accordingly. Moreover, that slow but steady improvement has continued over the two years since I started trying to improve my situation and, what is more, is still continuing even today according to what my meter keeps telling me.

I apologise that my story does not fit nicely into the "inevitable progression" pattern that some might feel happier to accept as being their destiny - i.e. exactly what I was told would certainly happen to me - no matter what efforts I made personally - when I started my Type 2 diabetic journey ten years ago. It could be that some others are happier believing that everything is outside of their control and that there is nothing that they can do to change their destiny. Such an attitude would not surprise me because that is exactly what I believed for to be the case for the first eight years.

Certainly, I am sorry that you personally consider that my postings do not fit in with the policy of this forum. Therefore, I have decided that it is the time that I withdrew from posting. Therefore, I will quite simply wish you all well and say "Goodbye!".

May I just add my thanks to people on this forum who have helped me along the way! I really am grateful to those who have helped me in any small way whatsoever since I arrived here around eighteen months ago. Thank you very much indeed!

Best wishes to all of you - John
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256
November 30, 2010, 10:39am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 580
Sorry if my postings are causing other members difficulties. All I have ever tried to do is to share with others what is happening to me in the hope that it might encourage maybe just a few other non-insulin-dependent Type 2s to try to learn maybe just something from my experiences. As far as I am concerned, I never suggest that what has happened to me will be possible for everybody else. Moreover, I have absolutely no idea why you might even suggest that I might be being "judgmental" of anyone whatsoever. By the way, I haven't received even one private message regarding the matters that you write about.

Personally, I consider that I have always tried to give a message that improvement might just be possible in at least maybe a few other Type 2s - not for all but just maybe a few others! Why? Because my improvement began as soon as I started testing and then adjusting my diet accordingly. Moreover, that slow but steady improvement has continued over the two years since I started trying to improve my situation and, what is more, is still continuing even today according to what my meter keeps telling me.

I apologise that my story does not fit nicely into the "inevitable progression" pattern that some might feel happier to accept as being their destiny - i.e. exactly what I was told would certainly happen to me - no matter what efforts I made personally - when I started my Type 2 diabetic journey ten years ago. It could be that some others are happier believing that everything is outside of their control and that there is nothing that they can do to change their destiny. Such an attitude would not surprise me because that is exactly what I believed for to be the case for the first eight years.

Certainly, I am sorry that you personally consider that my postings do not fit in with the policy of this forum. Therefore, I have decided that it is the time that I withdrew from posting. Therefore, I will quite simply wish you all well and say "Goodbye!".

May I just add my thanks to people on this forum who have helped me along the way! I really am grateful to those who have helped me in any small way whatsoever since I arrived here around eighteen months ago. Thank you very much indeed!

Best wishes to all of you - John

John, I've been to busy to read here every day lately and missed this and the background.

I never saw your posts in that light and I'm rather surprised that anyone at all did. I don't want to start any battles. Let me just say that I sincerely hope you reconsider.

Sometimes I've found a sabbatical from various forums is needed to refresh myself. I would welcome you back at any time.
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77
November 30, 2010, 8:31pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 580

I apologise that my story does not fit nicely into the "inevitable progression" pattern that some might feel happier to accept as being their destiny - i.e. exactly what I was told would certainly happen to me - no matter what efforts I made personally - when I started my Type 2 diabetic journey ten years ago. It could be that some others are happier believing that everything is outside of their control and that there is nothing that they can do to change their destiny. Such an attitude would not surprise me because that is exactly what I believed for to be the case for the first eight years.


John i do not accept "the "inevitable progression" pattern" either and I too was told this at diagnosis in fact through testing and managing my diet I have managed to reduce my meds & A1c but despite my best efforts have not managed to get off meds completely and in fact have accepted that I do need some meds and no matter what I cannot go back to eating how i used to if I want a healthy, complication free future. I certainly do not think that everything is outside my control and I don't believe that other forum members do either.

Quoted from 580

Certainly, I am sorry that you personally consider that my postings do not fit in with the policy of this forum. Therefore, I have decided that it is the time that I withdrew from posting. Therefore, I will quite simply wish you all well and say "Goodbye!".


I am sure that is not what was intended, however if that is your decision - I wish you well in the future





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17
December 1, 2010, 1:12am Report to Moderator
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John I know very well that the way things generally work on forums, if people want to have a whinge about other people, they complain to Admin not the person.  That way, the complainant remains anonymous.  Admin of course, never are!  But they have the really difficult job of remaining utterly diplomatic and not taking sides even though they are people too and entitled to their own opinions as we all are!

No doubt all the other members of DSF who have found the same as you would like to speak up?  
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505
December 1, 2010, 1:54am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 256

John, I've been to busy to read here every day lately and missed this and the background.

I never saw your posts in that light and I'm rather surprised that anyone at all did. I don't want to start any battles. Let me just say that I sincerely hope you reconsider.

Sometimes I've found a sabbatical from various forums is needed to refresh myself. I would welcome you back at any time.


John,

That goes for me too!  I've found you contributions extremely valuable.  For example Lizzi's Granola, which I enjoy from time to time.  I've certainly felt like withrawing a few times myself as well and I think I must have jacked in a couple of times too!  But people are friendly on this forum and always try to help. Writing (rather than speaking) words is hard because you can easily "say" something taken out of context.  There are loads of people who can benefit from your experience even if they cannot aspire to your control. (We don't know how many lurkers there are on the forum and our experience helps them too!). I would go so far as to say I've found you an inspiration, and many can learn from you: so don't go because there are millions of diabetics out there who need your help!

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1055
December 1, 2010, 8:55am Report to Moderator
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I hope you will be back, John.
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1414
December 2, 2010, 3:13pm Report to Moderator
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John, I've only  just picked up on this recent debate following a bout of the dreaded Noro virus which attacked last week. It would be very sad if you left the forum - you have been a great inspiration for me and helped a lot by describing what has happened to you.

It must be very hard being a moderator on here - trying to make sure contributions don't raise false hopes, whilst encouraging everyone to have a say and ask as many questions as they like. Sometimes, the wording of responses doesn't quite say what was meant and it is easy to take offence. So hear what many are saying John - they are impressed with your own achievments, want you to go on inspiring others but not raise hopes so far that they feel let down if they can't achieve what you have.

Most important is not giving others the impression they are not trying hard enough if it is not going right - that is the only way many of us can keep going.

Let's carry on working together to inspire other T2s to have a go....


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1532
December 2, 2010, 5:28pm Report to Moderator
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Phew! bit heated, come on John we are all adults, and entitled to opinions, and can take critisium ... see i can't even spell  
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December 2, 2010, 6:09pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
following a bout of the dreaded Noro virus which attacked last week.
I do hope you are fully recovered Wendiferous.  
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1414
December 2, 2010, 8:09pm Report to Moderator
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Yep, one of the hazards of grandma duties having looked after those who got it first... fine now and just behind with a little work!
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December 2, 2010, 10:27pm Report to Moderator
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Good news then  
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Diabetes Support Forum UK    Diabetes topics    General Discussion  ›  New book for people trying to reverse Type 2


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