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Diabetes Support Forum UK    Diabetes topics: closed to new messages. Visit the new forum (link above)    Food and diet  ›  daily carb intake
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Moby
March 16, 2009, 11:14pm Report to Moderator

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hi chaps and chapesses! firstly thanks for all your replies to my other posts, and thanks for your patience in answering questions, which i am sure, have been asked before.
i've been looking at my burgen loaf and warburtons wholemeal loaf and i am confused. the carbs in the burgen are lower than the warburtons BUT the sugars are higher in the burgen! how is it then that the burgen is 'better' for us lot?
next question.
reading said packets of bread, the recommended daily carb allowance is 230g per day. what is accepted as a daily low carb allowance, and, if we are to avoid' carb' breakfasts what would be the recommended spread of our allowance over the rest of the day?

thanks moby


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Trinkwasser
March 17, 2009, 12:15am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Moby

reading said packets of bread, the recommended daily carb allowance is 230g per day. what is accepted as a daily low carb allowance, and, if we are to avoid' carb' breakfasts what would be the recommended spread of our allowance over the rest of the day?

thanks moby


Judas F Priest, that's about a week's worth of carbs for me.

Only your meter can tell you for certain sure, as a rough guideline most successful diabetics I know do around 50 - 150g, the majority around the lower end. A few do significantly less and a few genuinely seem to succeed on more.

My personal limit is around 60 - 100g depending on activity levels and over time I've discovered I don't need to carb up to avoid problems nearly as much as I used to did. That's around 15g at breakfast and around 30 - 50g in the evening, but many people have a far steeper slope than that.

Have a read here

http://mendosa.com/gi.htm

and while you're there have a look at his take on the Satiety Index also. Bear in mind that most GI values have been calculated on nondiabetics and some of us find major anomalies, for example for me wheat is nearly as fast as sugar, and I know someone who can eat bananas . . .


On the cusp between Type 2, IGT and Reactive Hypoglycemia
A1c 5.2 5.2 5.6
Old lipids HDL 0.63 LDL 5.2 Trigs 4.3
Now HDL 1.4 LDL 2.4 Trigs 0.7
BP was 145/95 now around 125/80
Diet, exercise. Alpha lipoic acid 300mg, Olmesartan 20mg, Simvastatin 10mg
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Pattidevans
March 17, 2009, 12:29am Report to Moderator

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Forget "Of which sugars" simply look at the total carbs.  Plus the burgen is lower GI than the Warburtons.  Sorry too tired right now for anything more complex in the way of an answer


Patti

Type 1 on Levemir/Humalog, Lisinopril, Thyroxine, Liothyronine and now 1000mg Glucophage SR. Last Hba1c 5.6  Highest Hba1c since March 2004.
Please visit our new forum http://diabetes-support.org.uk/diabetesforum/index.php as this one has closed
© 2011 Patti Evans
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VBH
March 17, 2009, 1:18am Report to Moderator
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Kinda beat me to it patti.  What I was going to write was this....

This might sound odd, but ignore "of which sugars" completely.  At least for the moment.  Later on it might come in handy when you are looking at your limits, but you'll get around to it with experience.

Trink has already pointed you towards the Glycemic Index.  The simple way of thinking about this is that its an indication of how fast it will hit your BG.  Sugar has a GI of 100, as does white bread.  

Now think about that for a moment.  Does that mean that white bread is 100% sugar?  No.  Take a look at Hovis white bread for an example.  Per 100g its 44.6 carbs - of which sugars 3.5g.

So on the one hand you have a bag of sugar which is 100% sugar.  On the other hand you have a product which hits your BG just as fast, but is 3.5% sugar.

Thats why sugar content in packaged foods is largely irrelevant.

Sugar is simply a carbohydrate and what is important is how quickly the body breaks carbs down to glucose.  It doesn't matter whether those carbs are sugars or another subcategory of carbohydrates.  How quickly that happens is shown by the glycemic index.  The "sugar" content is irrelevant.

Now then.....wholemeal bread is usually around 20 carbs per slice.  Burgen is 11.9.  I don't have GI figures for british burgen, but I believe its generally about half the GI of wholemeal bread (40ish compared to 80ish).

So the sugars content is really misleading in this case and runs completely contrary to what diabetics need to know.  If you take notice of sugars you would think you were better off with the wholemeal.  As it turns out the burgen is far better.
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VBH
March 17, 2009, 1:24am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Moby

next question.
reading said packets of bread, the recommended daily carb allowance is 230g per day. what is accepted as a daily low carb allowance, and, if we are to avoid' carb' breakfasts what would be the recommended spread of our allowance over the rest of the day?

I don't do numbers.  Every now and again this question comes up and I have to think "just how many carbs DO I have?" cos most of the time I have no idea.  It turns out that the majority of the time I am between about 80 and 120 carbs per day.

But I don't think about it at all day to day.

The only numbers that I care about really are the ones on my meter.  For me, its all about finding combinations of foods that I can eat without going too high.  How many carbs are in it does not really matter.

Having said that I know you are looking for targets to get started....so hows about 20, 40 and 40?  The 20 for breakfast is because of the fairly high chance of increased insulin resistance in the morning.  So give those numbers a try as a very rough idea and see what your meter tells you.  Everyone is different and its all about finding out what works for you.
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Pattidevans
March 17, 2009, 2:16pm Report to Moderator

It's ONLY diabetes. There are many worse things
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IMHO the best place to start eating to your meter is http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/joomla/jennifers-advice


Patti

Type 1 on Levemir/Humalog, Lisinopril, Thyroxine, Liothyronine and now 1000mg Glucophage SR. Last Hba1c 5.6  Highest Hba1c since March 2004.
Please visit our new forum http://diabetes-support.org.uk/diabetesforum/index.php as this one has closed
© 2011 Patti Evans
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Trinkwasser
March 17, 2009, 2:40pm Report to Moderator
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On the cusp between Type 2, IGT and Reactive Hypoglycemia
A1c 5.2 5.2 5.6
Old lipids HDL 0.63 LDL 5.2 Trigs 4.3
Now HDL 1.4 LDL 2.4 Trigs 0.7
BP was 145/95 now around 125/80
Diet, exercise. Alpha lipoic acid 300mg, Olmesartan 20mg, Simvastatin 10mg
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Richard157
March 18, 2009, 10:40pm Report to Moderator

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I eat whole grain low carb bread.  It has only 8g of carbs per slice. The whole grain digests more slowly and the low carb does not raise my BG much.  I live in New York, do you folks have low carb bread in the UK?  I think I have heard UK members on USA site say that you do.  

I eat only 130g of carbs per day, on the average.  That and walikng for one hour each day anabled ,me to lose weight.  Now I have stabilized and and am not gaining but I still need to lose more.  I think I will have to eat only 100g of carbs per day to lose the additional weight.

Moby, I don't know if any of this helps you.  Maybe you don't have a weight problem, but if you do then 230g per day sounds terribly high.

Richard


Type 1 for 66 years. Using a Minimed pump . A1c=5.7....My book: Beating The Odds: 64 Years of Diabetes Health is available on amazon.com.  
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Pattidevans
March 19, 2009, 12:02am Report to Moderator

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Richard, We have Burgen Soya and Linseed bread 11g carb per slice and very tasty too!


Patti

Type 1 on Levemir/Humalog, Lisinopril, Thyroxine, Liothyronine and now 1000mg Glucophage SR. Last Hba1c 5.6  Highest Hba1c since March 2004.
Please visit our new forum http://diabetes-support.org.uk/diabetesforum/index.php as this one has closed
© 2011 Patti Evans
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sedge
March 19, 2009, 12:53am Report to Moderator

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Wasn't there a Marks and Spencer one at 9-ish g a slice?


Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid since 24 May 2011

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 7&11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5

Lipids - 7/10 - Total 5.6, H 1.9, L 3.3, T 0.9  Trigs/HDL 0.47
- 2/11 - Total 5.3, H 2.1, L 1.46, T 0.6  Trigs/HDL 0.29

BP - 6/10 127/79, 7/10 136/66, 2/11 125/75  Olmetec 10mg

TSH - 7/10 5.1, 2/11 8.73  Thyroxine 25mg

http://79.170.42.2/diabetes-support.org.uk/diabetesforum/index.php
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Moby
March 20, 2009, 10:17pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Richard157
I eat whole grain low carb bread.  It has only 8g of carbs per slice. The whole grain digests more slowly and the low carb does not raise my BG much.  I live in New York, do you folks have low carb bread in the UK?  I think I have heard UK members on USA site say that you do.  

I eat only 130g of carbs per day, on the average.  That and walikng for one hour each day anabled ,me to lose weight.  Now I have stabilized and and am not gaining but I still need to lose more.  I think I will have to eat only 100g of carbs per day to lose the additional weight.

Moby, I don't know if any of this helps you.  Maybe you don't have a weight problem, but if you do then 230g per day sounds terribly high.
Richard


hi richard, thanks for replying. at the moment i have cut out virually all carbs. bread rice pasta potatoes etc. i am eating fruit veg salad etc, and losing weight steadily. the exercise is an issue with me. working a minimum of 8 hours plumbing and house renovation i have a very active and physically tiring job. after the work and the chores involved at home kids/tea/homeowrk/taxi runs etc i feel i have very little energy and/or time. i do admit i need to do more walking and i do have a weight problem (it is reducing though)
i have started testing very regularly and looking very carefully at what i am eating.


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sedge
March 20, 2009, 10:42pm Report to Moderator

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Well walking is pretty good exercise all round however - you do have a physically active job apart from kids and prolly get far more exercise at work than a lot of us get, period !


Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid since 24 May 2011

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 7&11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5

Lipids - 7/10 - Total 5.6, H 1.9, L 3.3, T 0.9  Trigs/HDL 0.47
- 2/11 - Total 5.3, H 2.1, L 1.46, T 0.6  Trigs/HDL 0.29

BP - 6/10 127/79, 7/10 136/66, 2/11 125/75  Olmetec 10mg

TSH - 7/10 5.1, 2/11 8.73  Thyroxine 25mg

http://79.170.42.2/diabetes-support.org.uk/diabetesforum/index.php
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Trinkwasser
March 21, 2009, 9:11pm Report to Moderator
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Posts: 1,110
I've found over time (there's a definite changeover period) running on ketones rather than glucose works for extended low level exercise, even some marathoners, cyclists etc. are doing it quite successfully. I no longer need to carb up to avoid BG drops or liver dumps as much as I used to (that's probably still a good plan for sprint type exercise though)


On the cusp between Type 2, IGT and Reactive Hypoglycemia
A1c 5.2 5.2 5.6
Old lipids HDL 0.63 LDL 5.2 Trigs 4.3
Now HDL 1.4 LDL 2.4 Trigs 0.7
BP was 145/95 now around 125/80
Diet, exercise. Alpha lipoic acid 300mg, Olmesartan 20mg, Simvastatin 10mg
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